Probably, you just said "Nah" to the title, yet I'm glad you're nevertheless reading this post.
TL;DR
What would you do if y...
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In France this is pretty usual to hire people without CS degree.
If you have a portfolio and the ability to proove your knowledge, you can get hire.
a bon !? I had thought it's totally opposite in France like elitism even in web developer field.
Thank you Valentine for sharing !!
Big companies have this elitism. Focus on the French tech and start-up. Not to be racist or whatever that could offend, but there's a trend to hire Indian people.
It could also work for others, the fact is that we like to open our mind, meet other people and cultures.
Be welcome :)
I envy Indian ppr !!
merci monsieur !!
Hah this is amazing, I'd hire you for this post alone😂! I am also a developer without a CS degree, in a foreign country (still the EU though, so it's relatively similar). I've moved from the Netherlands to Portugal and am currently looking around for opportunities here. They seem very well available even without a CS degree. In the Netherlands not many companies think a CS degree is the most important thing on your CV. Especially digital agencies are way more interested in what you can do and what kind of person you are than what degrees you have!
Arden, Thank you for sharing your world !! I'm glad to hear you liked my post.
You don't need kind of Visa to work in other EU countries ?
I'm curious about tech in both countries Netherlands and Portugal !!
No visa, only a 'residence certificate' which is easily obtained when you're from a EU country. If I can answer any questions about the tech scenes in either country, don't hesitate to ask!
In the US right now immigration is a hot button political issue so it isn't the best time to come here. On top of that, the typical tech immigrant employment path, H1B visas, require a CS degree, preferably an advanced CS degree. This is filters down into it being a requirement for a lot of jobs, even if it isn't really necessary. (I could rant at length about this situation, primarily how it benefits big corporations while hurting both US and immigrant developers, but I won't here.)
The non-CS-degree immigrant programmers I've worked with have had permanent resident status due to marriage to a US citizen or refugee status. I've usually found them to be more skilled programmers than a H1B contractor with a diploma mill Masters in CS.
Frank !! I appreciate your Frank comment so much !!
The real world story you shared here is very helpful for foreigners like me, which made me think real and take next step.
Depending on your age, you may qualify for a work-holiday visa abroad. I know Canada & Japan have reciprocal agreements, and there may be other countries as well. While the focus is to travel, you can try some CS employment opportunities/adding to your resume without needing a work visa. Best of luck!
Thank Erika !!! Yes ! I guess work-holiday visa is the easiest and the most realistic in my case, and as you mention Canada(Vancouver or Montreal) is really good to go, which is gonna be my first possible option.
Sure, I'd hire you! (Of course, caveat, we don't have money to pay, fund visas, etc...we're still just a little startup.) For our internship program, we really only look for four major criteria:
Professional working proficiency with English (ILR-3).
Basic knowledge of programming fundamentals and object-oriented programming.
Working proficiency with at least one programming language.
Willingness to learn! <-- This one is huge.
Beyond that, we really don't care where you're from, or how you learned to code. We don't require a degree...many tech jobs ultimately don't!
But, yeah, I know, we're just an internship. Some would say that midlevel and senior positions are going to be more demanding (they are logically more competitive), but I suspect the pickiness is their problem. Good workplaces are going to have much the same expectations as the above, often with the added requirement that you have at least
nyears experience in the required technologies. Even with that, some workplaces will recognize that 10 years experience in C++ and a basic familiarity with Java will probably equate to a qualified individual for a Java coding position within a few weeks of familiarization. ;)Long story short, neither nationality nor degree should matter for most tech jobs. The only place you really need a degree is if you're actually working in the academic branch of CS - scientific and algorithmic research and/or teaching.
Jason Thank you so much for your inspirational words !!
and also clear criteria is very helpful for me.
I don't think I meet ILR-3 in terms of English proficiency, Im ILR-2 or a bit less.
Anyways, I really appreciate your comment and now I feel more confident to give it a try to move abroad !!
A person in your situation who wanted to seriously consider living and working in the U.S. should consider Hawaii. I lived and worked for a software development company in Hawaii and noticed that Hawaii is very friendly to Japanese. Living in Hawaii is NOT cheap though and finding housing is a nightmare.
Howver, if you have friends or family already there, you can try it and a two-year degree from Kapiolani Community College in Information Technology IS cheap. Most of the foreign students in Hawaii speak very little English but manage to get through the degree program there. (The University of Hawaii has four-year degrees in Computer Science.) BTW, after living in any U.S. state for 1 year you are considered a resident as far as tuition and resident tuition is MUCH LOWER than nonresident tuition.
Also, I hate to mention it but maybe NOW is not the BEST time to try to come to the U.S. (except for Hawaii where you are always welcome!)
Many of my English language students are wary about moving here because of our current climate on immigration reform.
For example, some of my students who came here on Work Visas are finding their companies do not want to sponsor them next year. The "climate" now for foreign workers is a little tough with our current president.
Check out the U.S. job boards i.e. indeed.com, careerbuilder.com, monster.com to see what types of "degrees" they require or if they hire people without degrees here in the U.S.
Best wishes!
Thank you very much yolanda 人 for sharing specific info which is very helpful for me.
I will definitely consider Hawaii as well
I am from Brazil and I managed to land a job in Germany without a degree =)
no computer science degree or no degree completely
No degree completely
wow I that quite an amazing achievement my friend, I would really love if you give any advice regarding this matter as I have no college degree but still wants to land a software developer role in EU region.
great post man! i'm in your situation now! would like to know if you figured it out or found a job,
i'm an IT engineer student dropout & i'm confused whether i should do a degree or apply to jobs straight!
wow i am impressed by the question and level of this publication.
I am a Web and Mobile Developer with 6 years of experience
Country: Congo / Brazzaville
Continent: Africa
And I think immigrated to the US or CANADA by 2019
My first approach is to find at least 15 million CFA francs; enroll in an American university for 2 years then find a job as a developer.
I'm still looking for other approaches ... What's on
I create a blog
I feed my github
I am on Behance
I'm on Twitter
Will apply for Google Dev Expert
to increase the chances of being visible in the eyes of the world and hoping that someone is needed by me.
Thank you RajiI
as you mentioned, I also think being visible and searchable is the key.
others that I can think of ...
write public posts
make a public talk in conf
Thankyou
Best of luck :peace:
I stumbled onto this while searching the other way, but you wouldn't have much of a problem here in the US with smaller companies for your first jobs.
Larger places like Google, Amazon, Etc. will be harder as a ton of CS grads will be flooding them. What I would do is build up your online rep with open source, articles, etc. Then find a job with a creative or advertising firm or more "Tech adjacent" jobs. Web development, mini-sites, etc. This would give you the stateside footprint and the chance to build up your network.
What I've learned the most career wise is how useful a good network is. Going to tech events, volunteering, speaking, etc. will get you in lunches or committees with people that run departments at places that your resume may not make it past reception.
The other option is the startup community, which is awesome but a lot less reliable and may not look as good on your resume if your goal is bigger shops (IMO) as your experiences there may be less than a year. BUT Startups do give you a much higher Title/responsibility bump that can sometimes make a huge difference when looking at another place.
The way I would think of it is, lets say 5 years from now you apply at say.. I dunno Twitch..
If you have 2/3 companies of work history, membership in a local organization, maybe a certification (AWS) and a higher title, vs someone who has that CS degree and spent that same 5 years at one or two places you're much closer to each other.
In fact, I googled it and Twitch's job postings don't even list a degree as a requirement: jobs.lever.co/twitch/931021a4-8d79...
Thanks Yokim !! Hope you too !!
Hahaha, I love this post so much. I'm in the same boat as well.
I hope you find something you'll love soon!
Can an open course ware (OCW) such as CS50x serve as an alternate to a CS degree required for a work visa in a foreign country?