SaaS Life Isn't All Sunshine And Rainbows

Show notes:
Links:
Lego space shuttle
Challenger disaster
Challenger: The Final Flight
Roam
xkcd
Footage of Josh two weeks after final Pfizer shot
The Final Countdown
The Beach Boys

Full transcript:
Starr:
All right. So now you're going to joke about how, since I've been vaccinated...

Josh:
Are you saying you are vacc'ed?

Starr:
In vacc'ed. I'm chipped. I like to say I'm chipped.

Josh:
Got your injection.

Starr:
People always act like being chipped is a bad thing, but now if I wander off, people will be able to return me to my family.

Josh:
Yeah. And I don't know what the big deal is, everyone loves new technology. I don't know anyone who's been bummed out that some new tech came out.

Starr:
That's true.

Josh:
I don't know what the... Yeah.

Starr:
I can't tell you the number of times I've been watching WWC and just being like, "why can't you just inject this into my vein?"

Josh:
Right.

Starr:
And now they are, and everybody's mad about it. Make up your minds, people.

Ben:
Let's see, so Starr you just got number one. Josh had two and I will have number two in a week and change.

Josh:
Yeah. I should have full immunity and well, I know on our next podcast in a week, it's been a week. Yeah.

Ben:
It feels good.

Josh:
So I'm not going to be here next week.

Starr:
Yeah. You get full immunity. Josh. You don't get diplomatic immunity, so

Josh:
Oh, okay. That's good to know.

Starr:
Cool it there, don't go off and rob any banks or anything.

Ben:
Did you see the new space shuttle, Lego kit?

Ben:
It's very cool.

Ben:
Yeah, it's the kit that is from the mission that launched the Hubble telescope. So it includes a little Hubble telescope as part of the kit. And you can mount it by itself, like display it on the stand itself or put it in the shuttle bay, the cargo bay of the shuttle.

Josh:
That's awesome.

Starr:
Oh, that's really cool.

Josh:
Yeah. My, my kids aren't quite Lego age yet. As we were saying the other day, they... what is the other, what's the bigger version?

Ben:
Duplo.

Josh:
Yeah. With their Duplo age, but actually, they're getting. We'll be getting Legos soon.

Ben:
Yeah. It's fun for the whole family.

Josh:
Yeah. It's going to be fun.

Starr:
Yeah. Mine's not really into Legos, but she loves... We just have like this big box full of random craft supplies, and she'll just go dig in through that and start building stuff.

Ben:
Pretty great.

Josh:
That's fun. My kids are both really into Pokemon right now. So that's actually pretty fun, because Pokemon's fun to watch.

Ben:
Have you done Pokemon Go with them?

Josh:
No, I haven't done that yet.

Ben:
I don't even know if the game is still around. Like..

Starr:
Oh, it's around. I know several people who are super into Pokemon Go and yeah, it's around trust me. Especially with the pandemic lots of people just wanted something to get them out of the house. They've been walking around with that.

Josh:
I could see that.

Ben:
We had this thing. So I haven't done Pokemon Go in quite a while, but when I was doing it, we had this Discord group here around town. They would use that to coordinate the battles. You know, they're like, "oh, there's a new ray, let's all go over." And like, oh, wow. I wasn't that into it, but all of a sudden I just hear through the same spot. And they're coordinating the text and the scores. It's kind of fun. So I went to a couple of raids, but I just kind of lost interest before I really got that deep into it. So.

Starr:
I just can't really get into a game where I have to socialize with people to win. Maybe I'm just showing my age. I'm from the generation where you play games, to like get away from people.

Josh:
Is it really socializing? Because you're all just standing around in a park, staring at your phones. Aren't you? I mean, for us, that is socializing.

Starr:
Yeah. That's pretty much socializing. That's what we do at my family some nights.

Josh:
Oh yeah. We all went to the park today.

Starr:
Yeah. So it's beautiful in the Pacific Northwest now. I assume it's beautiful where you are Josh? It's

Josh:
Oh yeah. It's going to be 80.

Starr:
Oh my gosh. It's the first real week of sun after just months and months and months of gray and we all at this point, know not to get our hopes up. It's going to go back to gray pretty soon, but you can enjoy it while you got it.

Josh:
Is this the false spring? Is that what we're in right now?

Ben:
Yep. I think today probably after we're done recording, I'm going to be wrapping up some things pretty quickly and then getting the old foldable kayak out of the trunk and hitting the water.

Josh:
Nice.

Starr:
Oh, that's awesome.

Josh:
Yeah. I was thinking I might go sit in the sun or something.

Starr:
Yeah. So do you have any businessy type tech stuff to talk about today or we're all just have senior-itis?

Josh:
Well, we sort of unofficially launched a React Native support yesterday. So to our listeners, if you have any React Native projects that you want to monitor errors and you should hit us up, because we're looking for beta testers and things.

Starr:
That's awesome. And is that the one that Andre has been working on?

Josh:
Yep.

Ben:
Yeah. Andre did a fantastic job in getting the native stuff going and, Josh wrapped it up on the server side and I was pleasantly surprised at just how little work we had to do to get that working on a server side.

Josh:
Yeah. Source maps... Because React Native is a... I'm not a React Native developer, so it's probably only half working, but from what I understand, it's a little bit tricky, because it's React on top of native code. And so I've heard that you can end up with stack traces that have JavaScript and native, like source locations in them and stuff. And it gets tricky. So what we have, you can generate source maps for your React code and upload that to Honeybadger. And it works just like a regular JavaScript application. So we have yet to implement support for translating the native lines in the stack traces. But that's that'll be up next, I think. At least when someone requests it, so go use it and request it and we'll build it.

Ben:
That's that just in time development, we're not going to build it. Someone asks for it.

Josh:
Yeah. And also we have to understand it before we build it.

Starr:
Yeah. That's a biggie. Like somebody needs to come out with a a paid service that just processes source maps and Java trigger phrases. I know we would be the only customer because nobody has to do this, but us, but it seems like way too much work for what it is. It seems like we should just be able to like buy something and fix it.

Josh:
Yeah. What we're talking about here, basically it would be another source maps, service because are other types of... What is it? Symbolicating?

Starr:
Symbolification? I don't know.

Josh:
I can't remember. I think it's symbolication. Yeah, they switch it up on, you know.

Starr:
That's not even a word.

Josh:
But that's how I remember it. I always remember, it's the one that's not the real word. So it's a different type of a...

Starr:
Wasn't that a Red Hot Chili Peppers song? Symbolification?

Josh:
Californication was.

Starr:
Ah okay. Sorry. I got that mixed up. I'm sorry, go on.

Josh:
Yeah. I don't know where I was going with that. It's basically like another type of source map, but for native. And so you will have to build that into our infrastructure at some point

Ben:
There was a bit of conversation on Twitter this week about podcasts, and blog posts, and tweets, I guess too, about when people are sharing progress on their business and how there's all this positive stuff and hustle culture and like, "Hey, we were awesome. And we're doing all these great things and, look at our revenue, through the roof, it's to the moon." And some people were saying the reality is, there are ups and there are downs. We never hear about the downs so much in the tweets and in the podcasts and et cetera, et cetera. And so I was looking at that, I'm like, "yeah, that's true. And I think about our podcast and we don't very often share downs, but then we don't very often have a lot of downs.

Ben:
So that kind of works out I guess, but I thought about all this because we did have a down this week since, since recording our last episode. In the last episode I did say that we had a new feature coming out, where I talked about Slack and how we're going to have this threaded support in Slack and how it was going to be so awesome. And I said, it would be launched by the time that episode drops. Well, that episode dropped this morning and that feature did not launch on time.

Josh:
Oh yeah.

Ben:
It's kind of sad.

Josh:
It hasn't launched. I don't know what the story is. So...

Ben:
The story is, the features almost there, but there are enough corner cases that we just didn't feel comfortable launching it to our customers. Kevin and I had... So Kevin is working on this hardcore, for a long time and he really wants to get it launched, but we had a launch date that we picked and getting up to that date, there were still, these little bugs that are popping up and Kevin was getting pretty nervous. And so, Kevin and I chatted 6:00 AM, the morning that we were going to launch this thing, and he had just committed some code that would fix a couple more bugs. I could tell he was kind of anxious, but I could also tell that he also was really done with this, just so ready to get this out of the door.

Ben:
And so we talked to those last few issues and I said, "Look, I'll go with what you want to do here, but if it were me, I would not launch this. I would just set it aside, go do something else for a while, let my brain clear, and see if inspiration strikes about really making it feel like this was done." We're kind of nervous about launching this. And I really wouldn't want to deal with an increased support load by deploying a buggy thing, as opposed to just waiting a while and fixing it. We talked about, "what if we never get comfortable with this feature? What if this is just weeks and months worth of development that was thrown out the window?"

Starr:
What if nobody ever loves us again, and we die poor in a gutter.

Ben:
So there's definitely that sunk cost thing where it's like, "oh, we put so much work into this. Let's just push it out there. Let's get it done." Right? But ultimately we decided that we did not want to launch it and that we didn't feel comfortable enough putting it in front of our customers. That's a bit of sad news from Honeybadger. So for all those people out there, there you go. There's a little bit of balance to all that.

Josh:
Yeah. I definitely feel for Kevin because I've totally been there. And I think your advice was good though, because you don't want to deal with the fallout from support requests like that. If you're already in that place of frazzled and kind of done.

Starr:
Yeah. It's like being on tilt when you're playing poker or something. It's like, you don't want to deploy on tilt. I wonder if you could say that there's two types of deadlines and they often get mixed up and you don't really know which one you have. There's deadlines, which are real, like the space shuttle is launching on a certain day and you got to be there so you can get in on time. And then there's deadlines for motivation, which are not a big deal. It's not a big deal, we don't launch this feature. Maybe some people will be annoyed that they have to wait, but being a parent to a young child, I've really gotten over being bothered by people being annoyed.

Ben:
Yeah. We never set a deadline, like a date per se. It's just, we felt that it was ready. And so we said, "okay, we'll launch this on this day because it's ready." And then we got to that day. And I was like, ah, we don't think it's ready so I think artificial deadlines suck. But this was a slightly different thing where we thought it was ready, but it's not. And we're so emotionally spent on this thing that we don't want to play on tilt. I like that.

Starr:
Yeah. Is there something fundamentally difficult about it, or is it just a lot of weird little details have to be wrapped up?

Ben:
Yeah. More of the latter. And it was the thing of going into the final countdown basically and still having those issues. Right. Back to the space shuttle thing, it's like, it's really cold that morning, these o-rings man, I don't know, should we go ahead launch. No, let's not launch, let's double check those o-rings, right?

Josh:
Yeah.

Starr:
That's funny. Non-sequitur the other day I was in this unrelated discord and somebody said something about the final countdown and I was really going to make it like that song. I wanted to find it and paste it in. And then I was like, "wait a second." I was like, wait a second. This person is like 20. They're not even going to understand what I'm doing. They're just going to be like, "oh, this is going to like my dad sending me a link to some Beach Boys song or something." It's just, Ugh.

Ben:
Yeah, totally. I guess we'll have to add a link to the space shuttle in the show notes so that the young ones can know what we're talking about.

Starr:
Oh, yeah.

Ben:
So we aren't going to be launching the Slack thing anytime soon. We may not launch that as envisioned, we may have to go back and rethink that. Some of the threading stuff is really cool, but I don't want to lose it. So Kevin and I are basically just kind of taking a break and we're going to get some head space around that.

Josh:
Maybe work on something else for a while?

Ben:
Yes. Kevin has already started working on something that customers have requested multiple times and I'm really excited about having, so that should be cool. And it's a much smaller project so we can get it out the door and it'll be nice.

Josh:
Yeah. Guess sometimes you just want to ship something and that's also a bad reason to ship something. Especially if it's something that's been bothering you or if it's been an involved project and you just want to get it out the door. That's not a good reason to ship it.

Ben:
Yeah.

Josh:
But sometimes you do.

Ben:
But sometimes you do, because you just got to.

Josh:
Yep.

Ben:
That was January 28th 1986, the space shuttle Challenger.

Starr:
Okay, challenger. Is this a model of Challenger itself? No, I don't think.

Ben:
No it's Discovery. Discovery is the one that launched the Hubble. That was for those of you here who remember of the space shuttle, Challenger disaster. I don't know.

Ben:
I remember exactly where I was when that happened. I wasn't watching it on TV. I was in elementary school and I was really into space. Everything space I ate up. So of course I was all over this shuttle and stuff, but it was the middle of the school day, and we didn't have the thing where, at least my class, we weren't watching it like a lot of classes did. And I remember very vividly sitting in the lunchroom and having lunch, and one of my friends came in. He was also really, into space, we were best friends, and he came in and he told me that the space shuttle had blown up.

Ben:
I just didn't believe him, because I thought that was impossible. I thought maybe a booster exploded or, there was some sort of failure and they had to... Whatever. But the whole thing? That just doesn't compute. And so I watched recently, in Netflix documentary, about the disaster and I was not the only person that felt that way. A lot of people that they were talking to were just like, it was inconceivable to them that something at that scale that magnitude could actually happen. That was a sad day.

Starr:
Yeah. That's rough. I wasn't paying that close of attention to it. This is a little bit of a different temperament. I'm surprised that all the space shuttles don't explode. It's just like strap some explosives to our butt and we're going to shoot ourselves into the sky. Like, how does that work at all?

Ben:
That is kind of U2 in a nutshell, Ben believes in all of them.

Ben:
That's pretty funny.

Josh:
Yeah. I was two in 1986, so I don't remember. But I do remember the space shuttle, just later. I had the models and was into it in the 90s.

Ben:
But we don't warrant Honeybadger for use in space shuttle programming.

Starr:
Oh God, no.

Ben:
Sorry. We don't have that kind of insurance.

Starr:
Yeah. I've had a pretty productive week. We're going on the Honeybadger intelligence projects, which I really like saying. At first, I was going to abbreviate at HBI, because that sounds kind of official, but I also like Josh's abbreviation of HBINT, because that sounds like it's some sort of intelligent service.

Josh:
HBINT.

Starr:
Yeah. Now I've got six authors working on different languages and everything. And I had a little bit of radio silence from some of them. So I was like, maybe they didn't quite understand what they're signing up for. And they got into it and it's like too much work. But no, it's just, if you give people a deadline, they're not just going to like keep talking to you. They'll just start working and then do it. So, that's good. They are actually working and that is excellent. And we got one report back. I don't know what you think about Josh, but I, was like, "okay, this is kind of what I imagined.

Josh:
I haven't looked at it yet, but it's up next actually. I've got it on my to do.

Starr:
Anyway, that's a fun thing. Just rolling along making progress.

Ben:
I have another update from last episode in which I said... I got almost no responses to my emails, to people who were,

Starr:
Oh yeah, you got that really good one.

Ben:
So I got off the podcast and I found in my inbox an email from someone responding to one of those emails. So that makes two, I've gotten two responses in total out of the ones that I've sent out. And yeah, that was a fantastic response telling us reasons why they think Sentry is a little better in this way or that way and things we can do to improve. That was awesome. I,

Starr:
They're wrong, but they're entitled to their opinion.

Ben:
Well. Turns out this individual is not in the U.S. And one of the things he called out was our date rendering, which we had actually put some effort into to, to make it localized and to make it really nice for people because, of course the U.S. is weird and how we display our dates and the rest of the world is not weird. And so, he was complaining about that when he logged in, he saw it in the U.S. format and I'm like, "oh, that's because you haven't configured it." And then I thought we're already detecting the time zone via JavaScript, we go and update timestamps and they're based on that. Why don't we use the person's locale to determine the format?

Ben:
So, that was like a two line code change. I deployed it out there within a few minutes and I just loved those kinds of little fixes. Right. That's that's great. Maybe nobody even noticed that thing, but it just feels good having that kind of polishing.

Josh:
I think the point is that they don't notice it in the future. I like those things like personalization.

Ben:
So now if you create an account, hopefully when you first sign in, if you're in the UK, you will see the day, month, year as it should be, as opposed to the U.S.s backwards way of month, day, year,

Starr:
The other lesson is that people aren't going to go hunting through configuration options.

Ben:
True. Very true.

Josh:
You should just like drop them into the settings page after they sign up.

Ben:
Wait, wait. Before you can use any Honeybadger. You have to have configured all the things.

Starr:
No, we'll have a file upload form and they can upload a yml file with all their configuration options.

Ben:
There you go. I like it.

Josh:
That's cool.

Ben:
Yeah, but my week was more the same. Actually I think I'm about ready for vacation. Because I'm feel like,

Josh:
I'm thinking the same.

Ben:
Yeah, because I'm feeling a little tapped out. And so this week I've actually taken kind of quasi vacation, I guess. I took my foot off the gas pedal this week. I've been working every day, but not as much as I usually do. And that's been nice. I've been spending some time on the bike, and in the garden, and things like that. So

Josh:
Yeah. It's the three month mark. That's what it is for me because I started thinking about like the same thing last week or this week. I can't remember, I just started having those thoughts, like "oh yeah, vacation." I haven't taken time off in a while, so yeah.

Starr:
So you think it's three months? There's a sketch, I remember from Portlandia, where there's one patch of sunlight in the park and everybody, they move all the chairs to go sit in it and they're sprawling out and having a great time being all summery and then the sunlight moves to another part and then they have to run after it. I wonder if that's the thing, because it's like the sun comes out, it's like you've just to go outside for a little while.

Josh:
Yeah. That could be a part of it. I have noticed there's a cycle. Actually it's not three months, it's more like six weeks, is the sanity version where I should be taking a little bit of time at least. But three months is like, when I start to realize, I really need to take time off if I haven't already by then, that's when I start to notice that I'm starting to burn out a little bit. So that's usually like the critical point for me.

Ben:
I've wondered if we should have a mandatory vacation policy, where you have to take a week off every quarter.

Ben:
It seems like that would be hard to enforce. So that's why I haven't really like thought about it seriously, but as I speculated about other things, like vacation, because none of us take enough vacation time, in my opinion. I think at Honeybadger... We don't encourage people not to, I think we just like to work, and we like each other and we like what we're doing. And so we just ended up not taking a lot of vacation. And I was just trying to think of ways to fix that because vacation is good. It's useful. And so that was one idea. I was like, well, we could just say you have to take a week off. You're going to have to, but it's kind of hard to.

Starr:
...who's hoing keep up with that?

Ben:
Yeah, exactly.

Josh:
I'd like to bug people about it though. That's something we could do for each other.

Starr:
I don't really want people bugging me to take time off. That would kind of annoy me, but maybe we could have these periodic, like daily and weekly, reminders in base camp. I wonder if we could put a monthly one in there. There's like, "Hey, consider taking some time off," or something.

Ben:
Or we can build a SaaS that has a Slack bot that joins your Slack and nudges you. "Hey, have you taken a vacation yet?" And if you say no, then it goes away for a couple of weeks and then it comes back. And if you keep saying no, then it starts getting more frequent. Then it's every day it's like, "Hey vacation yet?"

Starr:
It'll overlay something on your screen where it just says vacation.

Josh:
I'm really beginning to dislike the automat, of the automated check-ins and things.

Starr:
They're not my favorite, to be honest. I do not process lots of like notifications coming at me very well. I have this time dedicated to figuring out what I've got to do today and I'll go to these places and I'll figure that out. And then yeah. If something comes at me in the middle of day, it was like, "Hey, you got to do this thing." I'm not like, "great, thanks for reminding me." I'm going to. Like shut up. I'll look at you tomorrow. I've already got my plan for today.

Josh:
Yeah.

Ben:
It's a nice world to live in.

Josh:
My friend, Joel has an interesting approach to what we use the automated check-ins and base camp for, like keeping up with what everyone's working on and stuff. They use a shared Roam Research daily because Roam Research is note taking tool that's collaborative, so you can like invite a bunch of people to it. It's like a Wiki. So you're all editing the same Wiki, but it centers around like a day page. So it's basically like a journal, it's the default view of it. So they have their entire team in a database that's basically like a team journal. So it's completely asynchronous. You just go to it and you could put anything you want in there that you feel might be interesting to other people or it could be what you're working on. I'd like it because that just becomes part of your workflow.

Josh:
And it's not like something that's constantly nagging you. Like, "Hey, what are you doing? What are you doing?" And also it opens up some flexibility for the types of things that you can share and the frequency, because it's a page of bullet items basically that's nested. So you can organize thoughts or things, but also, you're not forcing anyone to go read it. People can go and just browse it at their leisure.

Starr:
That's true. Yeah. That's interesting. That's kind of like what I do anyway.

Josh:
Same here.

Starr:
I would feel hesitant to do that in a shared format though, because I just like put everything for the day in there. Even if it's not work-related and that stuff is not really something I want to publish for everybody to see. It just feels weird,

Josh:
This wouldn't take the place of a personal work journal or something like that. I think it would be in addition, probably you might have your team and your personal one or something like that. At least that's how I'd approach it because I do the same thing with Roam actually, but just detailing what I'm working on or personal thoughts or whatever.

Ben:
Yeah. There is a personal note taking app for Mac and iOS that I saw recently that was built on markdown, but focused on a daily stuff. So kind of like the journal/notes app kind of hybrid. I thought that was neat. A good idea. And it sounds like the same kind of concept, every day, just dump your stuff in from the day and take notes that way.

Josh:
Hhhm-uuh (affirmative). I've been thinking maybe we'll try that at some point. I like to think about my experiments that disrupt people's existing workflows for a long time before I propose them, because we don't like to change things constantly. Maybe we'll try that at some point.

Starr:
Yeah. That makes sense. I think we're coming up on a conclave. I think it's about time.

Josh:
That's the reason I was really trying to get that React Native stuff shipped because that's been on every quarter for the last couple of quarters. This is not going to be on the next quarter.

Starr:
I should really go check my quarterly things. I think I've been doing them. I think I've been on track, but

Ben:
Yeah. I like to go back to that conclave to do list every once in a while to remind me would I agreed that I was going to do and then I just go, " oh yeah. That thing. Totally forgot about that."

Josh:
The real question is, is this conclave going to be virtual or in person?

Starr:
Oh, I don't know. If it's going to be in the next month it's going to be virtual. Because I'm not going to do my second vaccine yet.

Ben:
Yeah. You haven't scheduled that.

Josh:
Yeah. Maybe we'll go for virtual this time and then shoot for the first in-person one later this year.

Starr:
Yeah.

Ben:
In Hawaii.

Josh:
Oh, that's a good idea. Yeah. I was, I went sort of attended a RailsConf. this week, which was online and it was great. It actually felt very RailsConf-y, even though it was different. I guess this is actually the second virtual RailsConf because the first one was canceled right at the start of the pandemic last year. But this one felt much more put together and definitely way more organized, obviously. They had a discord and a nice custom website with a hybrid prerecorded and live talks and things. 

Josh:
They announced that RubyConf later this year is going to be in Denver. And so that was like the first event that I've heard recently, they're committing to some sort of in-person event. And that was kind of exciting because it's nice to look forward to traveling.

Starr:
Did they announce if next year's RailsConf is going to be, I assume it's going to be a person?

Josh:
Portland. It's back in Portland. So it's a do-over.

Starr:
They have unfinished business in Portland.

Josh:
Yes.

Ben:
That's awesome. I think the MicroConf Europe is scheduled to be in person.

Josh:
So, oh yeah. That was announced recently. Like last week or something.

Ben:
November or something. Yeah. So people being optimistic. It's good.

Josh:
Are we going to Europe?

Ben:
I'm not going to Europe but you're welcome to if you like. I have my passport,

Josh:
I don't know if I'm ready for that,

Ben:
But I'm not going to go to Europe. I'm not going to do non-essential travel for a while. Even vaccinated I'm just going to play it kind of close to home for a while and see how the summer goes.

Starr:
That's fair. And also I don't have a kid's vaccine yet. So I saw that maybe there's a chance it'll happen towards the end of the year. Who knows really?

Josh:
I might go to Hawaii or something.

Starr:
Yeah. It's just really weird because like I'm safe now, but now I've got this child who isn't. So how do I deal with that? We don't need to get into that. It's just the next level of this weird, crap parade that has been the past year and a half. 

Josh:
Yeah. The risk to kids is not very high though. Right?

Starr:
They can still get it.

Josh:
I know they can get everything.

Starr:
There's a lot that's not known. Right. Kids have been largely sequestered. I think the risk of dying is low, but they can spread it to other people. Maybe, there's complications after they get it, but even though they are still alive, you know? So it's just...

Josh:
The long-term one is something that I'd like to know more about.

Starr:
Yeah. I'm kind of stressed out because our kid's scheduled to start school in the fall and it's just like, "ah! Like what?" Where's the information I need to make a sensible choice

Josh:
Well I'm done stressing. I'm so I'm so over like worrying about everything. I never want to worry again. Okay. I'm just done worrying just period. I'm going to go stand on the edge of the grand canyon and lean out.

Starr:
You're just a dude. It's okay, I'll get you one of those nice Pendleton sweater.

Josh:
Nice. Let me go skydiving.

Ben:
Yeah. We got to check on that key person insurance for Honeybadger.

Starr:
Well, should we wrap it up so we can all start our vacations?

Ben:
Sounds good.

Starr:
All right it was great talking with you all and that this has been... What was the name of our podcast? It's not Honeybadger. It's FounderQuest. That's the name of our podcast. You've been listening to FounderQuest. Go review us and yeah, we will talk to you next week. Bye.

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